Current Status
A couple of weeks ago I had my first follow-up with Dr. Centeno since I had the Regenexx treatment back in early February. It had been seven weeks since the treatment and everything is going extremely well. I've been doing cycling workouts as well as various core workouts lately to get back into shape for the cycling season (the foam roller is my personal masseuse right now). The day before my appointment, I had just started running two to three times a week. I'm also coaching my youngest daughter's soccer team again which requires running, kicking, etc. So far I'm happy to report that I have no pain during these sports at all. This is great news because it means that the tears in the meniscus are doing very well as a result of the procedure. The only issue I have currently is some stiffness of the muscles around and through the right knee which were preventing me from doing a deep squat on that knee. This is a result of my mental guarding of that knee to protect it. At the urging of Dr. Centeno and my physical therapist, I started squatting deeper and deeper a little at a time to stretch it and get it used to regular full motion. I have already found that this continued stretching and squatting is helping that along nicely, even just in the last couple weeks.Dr. Centeno also performed the standard Lachman test on my right knee. To even his surprise, it was quite tight and responded very well. As a point of comparison, he also tested my left knee (the one that has never been injured) and it is very loose. It was so loose, in fact, that I could see the dislocation. Again, even he was surprised. So he tried my right knee again and he really tugged on it, but still it wouldn't budge. Because I was also diagnosed with a partial tear to the ACL, this was wonderful news! It means that the procedure has changed the state of the the ACL as well. We were both very happy to see this level of progress. I guess it was wonderful news for my right knee (the one that had the Regenexx treatment), but not so good news for my left knee. After this demonstration, I explained the stiffness in the left knee that has been increasing over the years. I had even been joking that perhaps I should have the Regenexx treatment on my left knee after the right knee is all healed up. So I'm having a MRI on my left knee to see what's going on with it. Depending on what we find, I am seriously considering the Regenexx treatment for my left knee as well. This is a testament to the results that I have experienced from the Regenexx treatment. I'm not sure if I will have it right away or not. I've got come cycling events coming up in June, so I would need to have it done really soon if I'm going to keep up my workouts in preparation for those events.
Continued Physical Therapy + Supplements
Not only am I continuing with some minor physical therapy to loosen my right patella but I am also continuing to take doses of a chondroitin/glucosamine supplement and a hyaluronic acid supplement twice a day. (The Collagen II contains the protein building blocks to support damaged cartilage and the hyaluronic acid lubricates the joints and helps to prevent free radicals from destroying healthy cartilage.) Additionally, last week I began a series of IMS (Intra-Muscular Stimulation) treatments for some muscles in my hamstrings, quads, IT bands and lower back. IMS is essentially deep tissue acupuncture (aka dry needling) to create micro-damage in key muscles to encourage them to heal themselves. It will take a few more treatments before I see some distinct results, but I'm hoping that this will dovetail well with the core workouts, yoga and cycling that I do.Regenerative Medicine
I have a friend who sells surgical tools and equipment. One tool he's selling now is a laser that is used to create micro-damage in very specific locations of the human heart. Just like what Dr. Centeno did with my knee, such micro-damage causes red blood cells to respond to heal the area (i.e., encouraging the body to heal itself). This creates an ideal situation for the injection of stem cells to grow new tissue in place of damaged tissue. He told me that they do this procedure for patients who have chronic heart disease and in some cases they can double the heart's ability to pump blood. For some patients, this translates into adding years to their life. So when I mentioned this procedure for my knee to him, he immediately knew what I was describing and told me that regenerative medicine is the new wave. So, in my opinion, the FDA better wake up and embrace the future and stop playing favorites with big pharma. Here's some interesting info on the lawsuit against stem cells from the FDA:- Former FDA Commissioner on our “Your Cells=Drugs” Case
- Texas Medical Board puts Rules around Stem Cell Use
- FDA: Your Body is a Drug and We want to Regulate It
- More on “Your Body is a Drug”
Conclusion
According to my doctor, my overall my progress has been excellent and, at this point, I couldn't be happier that I chose the Regenexx procedure vs. surgery. Tomorrow I have an MRI on my left knee to begin the possible pursuit of the same regimen of treatment for my left knee. Stay tuned.
Hey Bruce, glad to hear your results. I had an ACL reconstruction with some meniscus repair about 20 years ago. The doc did a good job and I had been able to play soccer, basketball etc for many years afterward at a high performance level. However now my knee does ok ONLY if I stick to walking or very light running. Cutting sports like basketball are out of the question. I played an hour of basketball a couple of days ago and my knee is in great pain, inflamed, clicking and I'm limping mildly. The last time I did this it too 3 weeks to subside. I can give up basketball but I'd like to be able to at least run more.
ReplyDeleteSo thanks for the update on your experience with Regenexx. It's something I hope could get my knee back to a better condition as I'm normally very athletic.
Question - What affect do you think the treatment is having to your meniscus tears? Do you think they are healing like they would if they had ample blood supply?
Question 2- How would you compare your Regenexx knee to your normal knee? Do you think the Regenexx procedure is bringing back the meniscus function? If so to what degree - 50% of a normal knee/meniscus.... 75%, 100%?
Question 3 - how hard have you tested your knee since the procedure?
Also what did the MRI say?
Thanks a ton!
-Bill
Bill, Below are my answers to your questions:
Delete1) Before the Regenexx treatement, once the initial meniscus pain had mostly subsided from the injury, if I tried to run my knee got sore very quickly right around the tear spots and I'd have to stop. Now I am able to play soccer without any pain at all, though I have not played competitively since the injury. This is due to a self-imposed limitation that I described in a previous blog post (but I've been itching to play recently so I'm considering it). I have been cycling, running, cutting, turning, jumping, etc. and I have no pain or stiffness whatsoever in the Regenexx knee. I do experience stiffness in my other knee (the one that has never been injured) which is why I'm considering a treatment for it now.
2) The Regenexx knee actually feels more stable and the ACL is much tighter than the ACL in the other knee (as my doctor has proven using a Lachmann test). Since the treatment, I can do a deep, full weight-bearing squat on the Regenexx knee without any pain -- I haven't been able to do that in over 25 years now! Four weeks after the Regenexx treatment, I was doing full cycling workouts and I was not holding back at all. Six weeks after treatement, I started running and doing plyometrics workouts (lots of jumping) and did not feel any pain afterwards. Just last week I finished up coaching youth soccer for the spring season where I was doing lots more running, cutting, sprinting, etc. and I have zero pain or discomfort. My Regenexx knee is 100%, no question.
3) The only thing that I have not done since the Regenexx treatement is play competitive soccer. For the last few years I have played in an indoor co-ed soccer league with my wife as well as on a men's 40+ outdoor league. I would really like to play both of these again but to date I'm not sure that I want to risk even the possibility of another knee injury. I want to remain active for the next 30 years, so I'd rather not play one sport I Iove to be able to play many other sports I love into the future. This is the self-imposed restriction I mentioned above, though I definitely have the yearning to play when I see my friends and my wife playing, it's very difficult to just sit and watch from the sidelines.
Dr. Centeno has not looked at my recent MRIs yet. That appointment takes place next week, so I will probably create a follow-up blog post after that.
Bruce thanks a lot. I'm following your blog and will be on the lookout for any updates.
ReplyDeleteI'm pretty sure I have some sort of tear that gets aggravated when I stress it. This is the clicking I feel. I would love, love ,love to have this heal so I can be active with it again.
Any thoughts on the various treatments i.e the "SD" vs the "C" (available in the Caymans) ? Multiplying the cells seem like an obvious advantage however it sounds like you're getting what you need from the SD treatment. Figured I'd ask.
Again thanks a ton. Not a whole lot of feedback on this new technique so it's very valuable.
I had questions initially as well so I just scheduled an appointment to be evaluated. Of course, I live very close to the clinic so this was easy for me.
DeleteAt any rate, I was told that mostly pro athletes go for the Regenexx C treatment and I don't know anything more than that.
Hi Bruce, great blog. How’s the healing coming along?
ReplyDeleteI’m a Midwest guy (Michigan) working with a physician trained in the Regenexx method. We are seriously considering a procedure similar to yours. I’m 28 and have had two ACL’s surgeries, one meniscus scope and a posterior lateral corner revision over the past 12 years (sports and motorcycles ). At this point I’m developing a pretty uncomfortable case of medial knee AO. We’re speculating that the primary culprit of the AO is the reduced and deteriorating medial meniscus/cartilage surface (I don’t think that’s rocket science).
So, the theoretical plan is to try and regenerate the medial meniscus and anterior cartilage surface using stem cell therapy. This seems similar to what you have done. Right? However, one thing that strikes me as significantly different from your operation – as you’ve described it -- is that rather than injecting and repairing a meniscus “tear” it seems I’m trying to regenerating the medial meniscus in terms of mass (I’m visualizing it as a partially melted ice cube which we are surrounding with more water and then putting back in the freezer).
This objective does sound tricky. I’m having a difficult time understanding how the new tissue growth takes shape. How it knows where and how to heal. DNA perhaps, scaffolding, coagulant. Not really sure.
I’m planning to speak more specifically about this with my doc but am curious if, in your dealing with your doc, you may have discussed this how this feat is accomplished? Were you also working to increase meniscal mass?
Hope your healing is coming along, wish you all the best.
Zach
One day prior to the Regenexx treatment, the areas in your knee that need the tissue regrowth are subject to micro-damage, essentially inserting a needle all around the affected area. As it was explained to me, this procedure causes the red blood cells to flood into the joint and begin the healing process of those areas that were damaged. Then when the stem cells and plasma are injected, they work with the red blood cells to cause tissue regrowth where the micro-damage was performed as well as to any injured areas that are attracting red blood cells.
DeleteMy doctor is Chris Centeno, the guy who invented Regenexx. The main goal of the procedure that I had was to heal the meniscal tears. Additionally, we could see a few areas where the cartilage was worn and weakened, so he targeted those areas as well. So far, the results have been very positive for me. So positive, in fact, that just this morning I scheduled two prolotherapy injections and a platlet-rich plasma injection for my left knee later this summer.
Hello ZACH,
DeleteI have a similar condition (except ACL surgery) in my medial meniscus.
I am a marathon runner in Miami and just took the Regenexx treatment last week in Colorado.
I would like to establish contact with you.
Did you decide to get the treatment?
thank you,
Miguel
I am Mrs Caroline Kelly from USA; I want to share a testimony of my life to everyone. i was married to my husband George Morgan, I love him so much we have been married for 5 years now with two kids. when he went for a vacation to France he meant a lady called Clara, he told me that he is no longer interested in the marriage any more. I was so confuse and seeking for help, I don't know what to do until I met my friend miss Florida and told her about my problem. She told me not to worry about it that she had a similar problem before and introduce me to a man called Dr.Isaiah who cast a spell on her ex and bring him back to her after 3days. Miss Florida ask me to contact Dr.Isaiah I contacted him to help me bring back my husband and he ask me not to worry about it that the gods of his fore-fathers will fight for me. He told me by three days he will re-unite me and my husband together. After three day my husband called and told me he is coming back to sought out things with me, I was surprise when I saw him and he started crying for forgiveness. Right now I am the happiest woman on earth for what this great spell caster did for me and my husband, you can contact Dr.Isaiah on any problem in this world, he is very nice, here is his contact (dr.isaiahspelltemple@gmail.com)
DeleteMany Blessings!
Caroline in MA
Hi Bruce, how you feeling? Still noticing improvement?
ReplyDeleteStill running and cycling without any troubles. I'm scheduled to have some prolo injections and a PRP (platlet-rich plasma) injection on my non-Regenexx knee in the july/august/september.
DeleteHey Bruce,
ReplyDeleteI'm so glad I found your blog. I suffered a complex tear in the lateral meniscus of my right knee on April 20th. My first knee injury! I too have heard many stories from friends who have had the surgery and are now worse off. The pain from my tear subsided pretty quickly and after about 2 weeks I was back to doing Crossfit, squatting 250# below parallel, and jumping rope. Still can't run and I don't dare try a box jump, which is how I hurt it, but it's doing okay.
I have been researching alternatives to surgery and came across prolotherapy, PRP, and stem cell injections. Since my pain level isn't bad I'm thinking I'll wait it out and wait for insurance to jump on the bandwagon.
It sounds like your experience has been great and you're back to a pretty high level of activity which is awesome!
How in depth was Regenexx's review of your case befoer they started charging you money?
Thanks again for posting your experience. It's been a great moral booster.
Being that this was my third major injury to my right knee in my lifetime, I had already guessed accurately that it was a torn meniscus. So I knew that I had two choices -- surgery or do nothing and live with it. Meniscal injuries do not heal completely on their own. The meniscus is a very low bloodflow tissue which is the root cause of the slow healing. The further I read I found that surgery on this tissue is generally a 50/50 crap shoot. Not something I wanted to gamble with given how much I enjoy rigorous physical activity.
DeleteAnyway, there's not much diagnosis required for this type of injury. Get an MRI and have a competent orthopedic doctor read the results. Once you see the injury yourself on the MRI, there's no question. The only question for me was how this alternative therapy would work on my body. All evidence to date pointed at success and I knew that I could fall back on surgery if necessary, so I made the decision to give it a try. Boy am I glad I did.
Glad to stumble across your blog ... I am in the same boat. I've had 3 surgeries over 15 years - medial meniscus torn ... basically bone on bone now..
ReplyDeleteDid you have the other knee done? Results just as good?
thanks
Sorry to hear about your situation, that doesn't sound fun. I did have my other knee treated and the write-up is available here:
DeleteThe Regenexx Stem Cell Procedure For My Left Knee
My knees are definitely improved. As proof, I just return from a five mile run. No knee pain like I used to have previous to the Regenexx treatments.
Hi Bruce, I have two torn ACLs and am totally shut down at age 47. Can't even ride a bike or walk without pain. Is this covered by insurance? If not, what are the costs for treatment? I have very recent MRIs so I should be able to use those.
ReplyDeleteThanks,
Andy
If the ACL is completely torn, then the Regenexx treatment will not help you. The only option for complete tears is surgery to rebuild it.
DeleteBecause the treatments are so new, they are not typically covered by health insurance. The cost for my Regenexx SD treatment for the torn meniscus was about $5600. The cost of my Regenexx SCP treatment for general wear and tear with laxity in the ACL was about $2000. These costs were out of pocket.
Hi—I read (on the Regenexx site) that you can repair a completely torn ACL so long as it is not severely retracted (I think that's the word).
DeleteNice to see someone write about this. Personally I've been suspicious of this process. You know when something seems to good to be true it usually is. I was wondering what you're out of pocket expenses where since I'm pretty sure insurance doesn't cover this.
ReplyDeleteTake a look at one of my previous posts where I outlined the cost involved with the treatment of meniscus tears:
DeleteThe Regenexx Stem Cell Procedure for my Knee
Health insurance typically does not pay for this treatment because it's new. But given that I've had surgery previously, the Regenexx procedure far less invasive (and therefore less damaging) which made my recovery time dramatically faster and much easier, I would definitely choose this treatment again. In fact, I've already chosen the treatment a second time as I had the treatment on my other knee back in August 2012 to treat a loose ACL and general wear and tear:
The Regenexx Stem Cell Procedure For My Left Knee
After experiencing Regenexx for myself now twice, I'm convinced that regenerative medicine is the future of medicine versus surgical procedures as the default treatment. Regenerative medicine is already being used on many other areas of the human body including the human heart and the success stories are really stacking up.
Im glad that your knee has healed so nicely.
DeleteI had a meniscus tear in 2012 surgically repaired and the knee was perfect for 4 years until it happened again.
Had another surgery and kjee was fine for about a year and here I am again with a torn meniscus and knee catching.
Id be interested to see the long term effectiveness of regennex. More than 5 years or so.
I have had Regenexx treatments in both my knees, one for an acute injury to the meniscus and the other to a partially torn ACL that was already repaired 30+ years ago. 5.5 and 6 years later respectively, my knees are in great shape because the Regenexx treatments allowed me to remain active and pain free.
DeleteHow much are your supplements per month? I've read on other reviews they are very expensive and not disclosed up front in the price.?
ReplyDeleteI have provided links to the recommended supplements below:
DeleteCollagen MD® Collagen II Joint Formula - $34.95 for a one month supply
Collagen MD® Hyaluronic Acid - $27.95/bottle (3 bottles/month = $83.85)
Are they required as part of your treatment?
ReplyDeleteThanks.
Note my use of the word 'recommended'.
DeleteI would greatly appreciate hearing from someone who had a rotator cuff repair. hank@henrymarkholzer.com.
ReplyDeleteWow! Best blog about Regenexx so far! Organized, Factual and to the point. Thank you. I live in Orlando, FL and have a telephone conference scheduled with Dr. Centeno this Wednesday. I hope, to be a good candidate for this procedure. Thanks for sharing Bruce... your blog was an excellent source of information. It is much appreciated. :)
ReplyDeleteThank you, Valentina and good luck!
DeleteHi Bruce! Thanks for all of this information. I've had two meniscus repair surgeries. I am a runner but also do a very physical form of yoga which requires excellent strength and flexibility in the knee. Can you comment on how your knee has healed and the range of motion that you have now? I'm considering another surgery or this treatment and most concerned with a bit of strength but more importantly an excellent range of motion. Thanks so much.
ReplyDeleteHi William, I have had both knees treated (each with different treatments both from Regenexx) and my range of motion is better than before the treatment. About 25 years ago, I had my right ACL reconstructed and I had not been able to go into a full, deep squat since that time. But after having the Regenexx treatment, I have no problem performing a deep squat with nearly 100% range of motion.
DeleteBruce,
ReplyDeleteHow painful was the extraction of the bone marrow? I am not a very good patient, if I am in pain. I am considering this for my low back.
Thanks,
HMedina
The procedure wasn't a big deal on the pain scale, but I did have a local anesthetic. For several days following the bone marrow extraction procedure, it became more sore each day as it healed, but that was it.
DeleteBruce,
ReplyDeleteI don't mean to be rude, but were you compensated in any way by Regenexx or by anyone associated with them.
Thanks
Ajay
Absolutely not. I received neither compensation nor discount for writing about my experiences with Regenexx. It was solely my idea to spend the time to write up everything and post it to my blog.
DeleteIf you're not paid or associated with them, what about their logo on this weblog? I would think they have a copyright on their logo. Nike, for example, wouldn't be happy about an unsanctioned use of their logo. Disney moreso.
ReplyDeleteI have published these entries on blog with my doctor's permission. He is one of the two guys who invented Regenexx.
DeleteHey Bruce, i came across your blog as i was curious to the effects of Regenexx as an alternative treatment for knee problems. Did you consider any other stem cell treatment for your knees before deciding on Regenexx?
ReplyDeleteI did not consider other stem cell treatments for a couple of reasons:
Delete1) To my knowledge, there were not that many other stem cell treatments like this in existence yet. As far as I know, Regenexx was one of the first.
2) The doctors who created Regenexx are about five miles from my home and the testimonies from patients was already very good.
3) The book Orthopedics 2.0 was written by Chris Centeno who is a pioneer in regenerative medicine and was one of the creators of Regenexx.
I did my research, and was pretty optimistic, but then I came across some of your videos and noticed that they all have comments hidden and ratings disabled. That made me just a little worried, because I really felt Regenexx should receive positive comments and thumbs ups on videos, rather than have them disabled.
ReplyDeleteI'm not sure to what videos you are referring. I have never created any videos about Regenexx.
DeleteHowdy! I have been reading up on Regenexx for a couple years now hoping that I can eventually have the treatment performed. Even though I am nearing 60 and have had "numerous" surgeries to "clean up" my joints (both knees and both shoulders) I have had tremendous results and relief from pain and able to return to high level athletic endeavors. However, over time the arthritis aggravates the issue again and I can no longer do "any" activities. Surgeries (orthoscopic) are no longer viable--except for knee replacements, which I don't want to do!
ReplyDeleteI have also had tremendous results from injections, mostly Synvisc, but it's not as long lasting as Regenexx reports. I came across your blog today and just wanted to know your thoughts as a potential candidate. ^_^
Hi Sheila, all I can say is that I had very good success with Regenexx. I encourage you to read all of my blog posts about Regenexx and they contain all of my experiences. As for your potentially being a candidate for it, I'm not a doctor so I cannot say. I can also suggest reading the literature available on the Regenexx website: http://www.regenexx.com/
DeleteThank you!! ^_^
DeleteHi Bruce,
ReplyDeleteI am overjoyed to read your blog.
I am a very active 41 year old mother of 2 that had the misfortune of having a lot of cartilage taken out (after accident) by conventional cartilage operation when I was about 12 years old followed with another arthroscopy 2-3 years later as the knee never settled down.
Since then I have played nearly 30 years of hockey (still play for representative), I go to a mild crossfit gym twice weekly and trail run around 7km, 2-3 times per week. I do the odd longer run and cycle too. I have always stayed in shape but since a further injury to cartilage and another arthroscopy in Dec 2011 the knee has been often swelling with a dull ache after a serious game of hockey. Since January the trail running and new level of strength and fitness seemed to be helping quite a lot with the knee feeling nearly pain/swelling free for until May. 3 weeks ago I started strengthening that weak knee under physio instructions to get rid of a bit of a limp (while running) and the knee has been swelling after every hockey game and trail run ever since. An xray 2 days ago has highlighted bone on bone and and a high level of osteoathritis in one compartment.
I am interested to know whether you think a treatment similar to yours could help me. I very much wish to be able to stay / return to trail (hill) running if at all possible and therefore interested to hear what expectations could be after treatment on both my activity level and long term use of the knee.
I just cant believe what I am reading on this blog....simply thrilled. I have been worried the day I couldn't play hockey anymore for over 20 years
I am in New Zealand and we play field hockey here
DeleteHi Carla, I always love hearing from folks our age (I am 42) or older that they want to remain athletically active! Regarding your question, it is my understanding from all of the research I did into Regenexx that it is used quite often for arthritic joints. There are two things you can do for yourself:
Delete1) Find a doctor near you who practices this treatment and be evaluated
2) Conduct your own research via the internet. The Regenexx website is *full* of information including Dr. Centeno's book titled Orthopedics 2.0 which is an excellent read.
Best of luck, Carla!
Magnificent goods from you, man. I have understand your stuff previous to and you are just extremely great.
ReplyDeleteHi Bruce,
ReplyDeleteHow severe was your meniscus injury? What kind of meniscus injury did you have? Did you have tears or ruptures only in the white zone or in both the red and white zones for example? Did your post treatment MRI show evidence that such tears actually healed particularly in the white zone?
My MRI summary states: " Horizontal tear of the body and posterior horn of the medial meniscus with tiny, 2 mm posterior paramedical cyst. Tear extends to the inferior articular surface in the posterior horn and body.
Any feedback would be greatly appreciated
Cheers
James
As stated in the last post, I experienced two meniscal tears (one medial, one lateral) as well as a possible partial tear of the ACL. My knee injury healed so well that I had treatments on my other knee just to tighten up the ligaments to correct general looseness.
DeleteMy question is regarding the specific details of your injury. For example: We're the tears in the red or white zones of the meniscus? And the types of tears were they?Horizontal or flap tear or otherwise? There size? As
ReplyDeleteUnfortunately I don't recall if they were in the red zone or white zone and if they were oblique or lateral tears.
DeleteHello Bruce,
ReplyDeleteCan you comment on whether you sense any "degradation" in performance for the knee, now that it looks like you are at least couple years out (for right knee). I have wondered as to the longevity of such procedures.
Do you need/get periodic PRP treatments (or any types of injections ) to "keep it going"??
I have not had a need to continue the treatments because I experienced zero degradation. For a couple years after the treatments, I ran and cycling many, many miles on a very regular basis. Unfortunately, seven months ago, I was in a car vs. bicycle accident that left my feet paralyzed (http://bsnyderblog.blogspot.com/2014/05/car-vs-bike-in-boulder-colorado-bruce.html), so I haven't been able to run or ride since then. I'm very hopeful that my body will heal over time and I will be back at. I'm already walking with arm crutches and not experiencing any trouble with my knees.
DeleteBruce,
ReplyDeleteI just wanted to extend a thanks for creating this blog. It has been very therapeutic for me as I cope my young arthritic knees. I am going to set up a consult with the local Regenexx facility to see if they can help. After learning of your most recent incident, my condition feels very trivial; I wish you the best of luck in your recovery.
John D (of NJ)
Thank you, John, and best of luck with the Regenexx treatements!
DeleteJohn do of NJ, any success? If so can you give any details of progress?
DeleteI can excellent success with the Regenexx treatments to my knees. I suggest you read all of my blog posts on my experiences with Regenexx (http://bsnyderblog.blogspot.com/search?q=regenexx).
DeleteUnfortunately I experienced a spinal cord injury two years ago and that has kinda changed my life. You can read my blog posts over the last two years for more info on this experience.
Well, I had the stem cell and PRP injections done four months ago at a famous University / Medical Center and I am not seeing any improvement whatsoever with my knee OA. At this point I think that:
ReplyDeleteStem cell problems:
- Origin – cells not potent enough
- Concentration – centrifugal process not offering stem cell concentrations at a high enough level
- Delivery method – joint injections not precise enough, stem cells not kept in situ / in place by proper viscosity
Just my opinion.
Alex T, PhD
Hi Alex,
DeleteWhich concentrating system did you use? How far along are you in your OA??
Hi Laura,
ReplyDeleteThank you for answering my comment, I am somehow eager to discuss this treatment with other fellow sufferers and determine the best course for moving forward. The University used a centrifugal process to separate the stem cell layer from a bone marrow and adipose tissue extract. To my knowledge this is the prevalent method used in the US for stem cell separation. As far as my OA goes, the doctor looked at x-rays of my left knee and determined that I have a narrowing of the joint space. No other details were given at that time, and now he is asking me to have an MRI done. I have been in chronic pain for about a year now, intermittent pain following workouts before that, and the stem cell and PRP did not help at all so far.
All the best,
Alex
Are you in the U.S.?? I'm surprised a doctor would use a stem cell injection without first having a recent MRI to review the status of your knee.
ReplyDeleteI think as far as next steps, you probably need to hold on until you know if there are abnormalities found in MRI that are truly connected to your symptoms.
In 3 weeks I'll undergo a similar treatement (BMAC + Adipose stem cell )using Emcyte's system. Four weeks later I'll get a follow-up PRP. Mine will be photoactivated.
Do you know the manufacturer of the system used in your treatment and did they use any type of stem-cell and platelet activation?
The reason why I'm asking about activation is because I had 2 not successful PRP treatments without activation by Arteriocyte and then one shockingly positive PRP using Emcyte with photoactivation.
Hi Laura,
ReplyDeleteYes, I am in the US. The doctor did ask for an MRI but he agreed to move forward without one based on some sort of persuasion I utilized. Basically paying for an MRI with a high deductible insurance would have cut into my ability to pay for the actual treatment. I am not aware of the manufacturer of the system used in my treatment and I am quite positive that the PRP was not photo activated. Where can I get the treatment done using the Emcyte’s system?
Thanks,
Alex
I got my PRP treatment in South Florida. However, if that's out of the way, you can email orders@emcyte.com and ask for physicians in your geographical area that use their PRP system. My activator was called Adi-Light. I just went back to look at emcyte and they apparently don't provide the activator...you'll need to call around based on the doctor list provided by Emcyte and ask if they have an activating protocol.
ReplyDeleteLaura
Good luck and please post updates following your treatment.
ReplyDeleteAlex
Thanks. I would like to help you out a little bit more. Have you heard of kneeguru.com? Consider posting there a thorough description on how you got from having intermittent pain after workouts to being in the chronic state. I 'm sure others will chime in with some thoughts on the possibilities for root cause, which could help guide you in terms of future treatments. Unfortunately x-rays don't say much other than how much joint space narrowing is present, and that in and of itself, does not correlate to pain or varying degrees of pain. I would also advise you to do a ton of research and become as well informed about your condition, and available treatments, as the next orthopedist you see. Anyhow, I think if you are not ready to get an MRI, than posting your symptoms and background on kneeguru may help.
ReplyDeleteOk and thank you for the advice Laura, I will check the site out.
ReplyDeleteFinally real potential to heal meniscus tears and defects in the avascular zone.
ReplyDeletehttp://www.arthritisresearchuk.org/news/press-releases/2015/march/stem-cells-research.aspx
Bruce,
ReplyDeleteThanks for the blog. I just recently underwent the exact same procedure and now in my 2nd week after the stem cell injections. I also had partially torn ACL and torn meniscus. Could you please tell me week-by-week how much physical activities were you able (allowed) to perform. After 3 days, the most I've been doing is light pedaling on a stationary bike and some walking. When did you begin doing light squats, stretches, PT, elliptical...and finally running. I don't want to rush it, but at the same time I don't feel like doing nothing if I can actually do some exercising.
Thanks again!
At this point I can't recall what I did on a work-to-week basis. I do remember following the doctor's orders pretty closely and not pushing beyond the recommendations. At first it's slow, but by the last week I was beginning to run.
DeleteIs this blog an informal commercial promo for Regennex?
ReplyDeleteIs this blog an informal commercial promo for Regennex?
ReplyDeleteNot at all. I was an early patient who experienced successful Regennex treatment for ligament tears to my right ACL and meniscus. I had such success with it in one knee, that several months later I had Regenexx treatment to my right knee as well.
DeleteThis comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteHello Bruce, i read all your posts and it is really amazing. My name's Michel , a french speaking 28 years old man. Last year i broke my left tibia while playing soccer and after cast removal, i started suffering ankle swelling and pain until MRI confirmed stage 1 of ankle arthritis.
ReplyDeleteDo you think that Regenexx can heal my ankle and allow me to return to active life and sports?
Hi Michel,
DeleteIt's all dependent upon the severity of the injury to your ankle. The only way that you will know is to be evaluated by a doctor who is qualified with Regenexx. So the best thing to do is to schedule an evaluation and only after receiving information from the doctor make a decision.
Bruce
Bruce,
DeleteGreat blog. I have some questions you might be able to answer, as you worked with the original pioneer in this area. I am a 50 yr old male, and have just finished the SD Regenexx procedure on my left knee. During and after the procedure, I asked some questions, and I am concerned by the answers I got, as they did not seem to make sense.
First, during the pre-injections, several days before the actual stem havest and injection, they gave me several shots up and down my medial meniscus. I asked them what those were for and the first doctor told me that the knee was a bit loose because of the cartilage I have lost over the years.. I asked why this would be needed, if the purpose of the procedure was to grow new cartilage. He explained that the procedure will grow new cartilage, but not enought o completely replace what I have lost. During the actual procedure, I asked the head doctor, a different doctor than before, how thick the new cartilage layer will be that will grow. He said 1 to 2 millimeters. This didn't make sense, because the articular cartilage is supposed to be only 1 to 2 millimeters thick in the first place. So, if that is how much I might expect to have grow, then why would I need to have the knee tightened up in the first place.
Next, prior to the procedure, all of the symptoms of my initial injury had subsided except for one. When trying to play soccer, if I were to cut and twist a certain way while bearing weight on the joint, I would get a very sharp shot of pain and then would not be able to walk for a while and would not be able to play for several days. The doctor said this indicated bone on bone contact between the femur and tibia. (Hard to see for sure as I cannot have an MRI)
Anyway, I asked how to ramp up my activity in soccer when the time comes, and I was told to "use my judgement." I am not sure what this means. I don't have any experience with recovery from this procedure, and I cannot rely on pain as an indicator of when to ease up, because, the only thing that seems to cause pain is the bone on bone contact, and if this were to happen again, it would indicate that I have displaced all the new cartilage from the treatment and am back to square one. (And out the cost of the treatment)
Any ideas for me?
Hi Curt,
DeleteYour case sounds very similar to my two experiences. I had meniscus tears in one knee and the other knee was just loose. My body responded very well to the Regenexx procedure after following the recovery regimen specified by the doctors.
Though I am not a doctor, I do agree with your doctor's statement to 'use your judgement' as I have had to do the same thing many times since the Regenexx treatments. For example, the meniscus tears (plus a partial tear of the ACL I had reconstructed nearly 30 years previous) were the third major injury to my right knee and I used my own judgement to decide to stop playing competitive soccer. This caused me to ramp up my cycling and running and I often had to use my own judgement with regard to how far I pushed myself. When I overdid my rides or runs my knee would get sore and I'd pay for not using my best judgement.
Since the Regenexx treatments on my knees, I was nearly killed in a bike vs. car accident resulting in a spinal cord injury that required emergency back surgery. Unfortunately the surgery left me crooked due to the hardware being installed in a maligned manner. What I have learned is that surgery is more art than science and so is medicine. Doctors can provide a lot of guidance and recommendations but they cannot tell you exactly what will happen. Doctors rely on training, research and experience and sometimes they still don't get things right. They can tell you what to expect in most cases, but they can't say what exactly will and will not work for you and your body. You've also got to listen to your body and consider what it's telling you along with the advice from the doctor.
Bruce
I was not surprised to learn about the lawsuit...gee the big pharma and FDA wasted no time in trying to quash yet another treatment that will severely impact the bottom line ($$$$) of big pharm and makers of implants. How sad the American medical system has been so corrupted by greed and power and all at the expense of our lives and quality thereof.
ReplyDeleteI pray the lawsuit will fail and this wonderful promising treatment will thrive and become mainstream
I seriously desire this therapy...cost is going to be an issue so may to wait a couple of years to save up for it. Praying it will still be around .
I Bilateral osteoarthritis both knees with bone on bone medially on one knee, some articulate space still in left knee which is the problematic one due to MVA that damaged ankle and knee, ankle was severely damaged, knee from the force of the impact traveling up leg.
ReplyDeleteRefuse to have cortisone injections and knee replacements as recommended.
Bruce, Thank God for your blog!!!!! You have given me hope and the determination to continue on to the Regenexx treatments for both of my knees (meniscus tears and arthritis in both). The doctor I was told to see in Boston doesn't take anyone over 70 and I am 71. I am searching for a local doctor, but if I am unsuccessful, I will come to Colorado. My question for now is what are the specific formulas of chondroitin/gluc and hyaluronic acid you take or did you take? I looked at the web site and there are choices to make. I am thinking it would be good for me to take supplements while I am waiting to find a doctor. Again, it is more than gracious of you to be so helpful and informative. Gloria A.
ReplyDeleteIt's been several years since I was taking these supplements and a lot has happened in my life since then, so I can't recall the dosages. However, my tendency is to take a higher dosage than is recommended when it comes to supplements and I did mention in this post that I was taking them twice a day.
DeleteThank you.
DeleteHello Bruce, I am currently in Bloomfield now. I received my stem cell injection yesterday and have my prp injection tomorrow. I am also a professional basketball player and we actually have similar injuries (partial reconstructed acl and small meniscus tears). I was very optimistic prior to reading your blog and now I am excited at the possibilities of recovering in time for training came in late August. My blood cell count was 934,000,000 which they say gives me an incredible chance to healing at a great pace, because the cells are going to be working at a high level...
ReplyDeleteI was also sad to hear about your accident my prayers go out to you and your family that you come out of this and get back to cycling like you were before...
Hi Bank, I really hope your body is able to heal itself with the Regenexx treatment. It worked really well for me, hopefully it will do the same for you.
DeleteThank you for the well wishes, I am definitely fighting my way back. It all just takes time.
Hello Bank,
DeleteHow are you feeling now?
Hi Bruce, I have a completely torn my ACL and I am weighing in on which route to take, surgery or regenexx. How are you feeling 4 years after the procedure?
ReplyDeleteIf you have a completely torn ACL (i.e., torn in two), then Regenexx is not going to help as you will need a surgical repair. If you have a partially torn ACL, then Regenexx will help as this was the situation I experienced.
DeleteSince the Regenexx procedures on my knees, they are in great shape today.
Hi Bruce,
ReplyDeleteAre you considering Regenexx for your spine now as well? I'm interested in prp and adipose stem cells for my cervical spine due to trauma from a car accident a year ago. Before it happened I was super active and since I haven't been able to get back to it due to pain and instability. I am weary of stem cells, prp, and prolotherapy because I'm only 24 and don't know the long-term side effects. I'd love your thoughts.
Thanks!
I met with Chris Centeno (guy who created Regenexx - he is my orthopedic doctor) several months after my spinal cord injury. He indicated that because my body had responded well to Regenexx in the past, that we have the option to treat my spinal cord injury (SCI) using Regenexx, but there was one big caveat. I do not have chronic pain from my SCI but he said that treatment of my spinal nerves could bring on chronic pain. So I decided not to go forward with the treatment at that time.
DeleteSince that time, my body is healing quite well with control of my glutes returning after five months and control of my calves returning after 1.5 years. So I have rebuilt my glutes mostly and I'm currently working to rebuild my calves. Now I'm waiting for control of my feet to return.
My experience with Regenexx was very positive and I always tell people to be evaluated for it. In fact, I would choose Regenexx again (and my wife just had it on her shoulder last week). There is no harm in being evaluated because it could help deal with pain and possibly to avoid surgery. But a spinal cord injury is different because of the nerve damage and this is the tricky part. For the soft tissue damage I experienced in my knees, I have full faith in Regenexx because it has worked very well for me. For the nerve damage I experienced in my lower lumbar spine, I felt like I needed to give my nerves a chance to heal themselves. So far this is working well and my body is slowly healing itself.
You mention that you had cervical spine trauma from a car accident, did you experience fractures, soft tissue damage, nerve damage or some combination of all three?
Hopefully just soft tissue but it's been over a year and I'm still far from 100%. My workouts are non-existent and I've head a clicking and grinding in my neck since the accident that causes tremendous anxiety. Luckily, I found a great ART specialist who has helped me regain a great deal of function in everyday life and has helped to rid me of bad headaches I was getting. I have an appointment with a neurosurgeon on Monday to look over all of my X-rays and MRI's and hopefully steer me in a good path. I refuse to get any type of spinal surgery but I'm not oppose to stem cells and PRP. I was looking into prolotherapy as well but I've heard it doesn't hold up well as time goes on. I just want my life back and to feel god again in the gym and everyday life.
DeleteI don't understand what you mean when you say 'hopefully just soft tissue' [damage]. Do you not know if you had bone fractures?
DeleteAnother thing I have done numerous times is muscle activation therapy (MAT) which seems similar to ART. This helped me regain lots of muscle movement and range of motion, even with all of my muscle atrophy, which really put me on the road to rebuilding those muscles.
I have had stem cells, PRP, micro-damage and prolotherapy on my knees prior to the spinal cord injury and all three worked really well for me. Prolotherapy is simply dextrose injections and is only meant to irritate the area (and is commonly used along with micro-damage), both of which stimulates red blood cells in the soft tissue. This triggers your body's natural healing capability and is used in conjunction with Regenexx stem cells treatments.
Thank you for sharing your experience. I'm considering Regenexx. I have to find out from them the extent of damage they will consider addressing if the meniscus is largely deteriorated and the ACL is torn (from a previous repair), basically a worse case scenario.
ReplyDeleteAll the best in your continued progress.
Hi Bruce and Merry Christmas! Thanks so much for having this blog! It is very difficult to navigate the medical community, much less the regenerative medicine arena! So far I have had PRP injections into my 2 lowest lumbar discs and gotten some relief of sciatica going down my right leg. The sciatica returned. I am now scheduled with the same doc in NYC to have a procedure called "disceel" along with PRP into the same discs with the hope that the disceel can close up the fissures and tears in my discs so the PRP doesn't leak out. I've also consulted with a doc in Florida (where I live) to have stem cells injected into these discs. Both of these docs are with very well known hospitals but acting on their own with regenerative medicine. I also have had an MRI on both knees (left knee painful for about a year) showing Grade 3-4 Chondomalacia over the superior Pattelar Apex. (I guess this means my cartilage is worn down behind the knee cap. Here's my question: can PRP alone help rebuild cartilage or does that require stem cell therapy. Also any thoughts on the disceel plus PRP therapy for my lumbar area? How do I get independent research done on Regenexx? to know if their Dr. Leiber in Sarasota is well qualified to help me with this journey. Thanks, Doug
ReplyDeleteI have never heard of disceel, so I cannot comment on it. Regarding your Regenexx questions, there's plenty of research available from the doctors that created the procedure, but I'm not sure about independent research. I guess I would start at the website and then contact them to find a licensed practitioner in your area.
DeleteHi Bruce,
ReplyDeleteThanks for your blog! I had a similar SD regenexx procedure done just this week. My post procedure knee pain is gone, except where the meniscus was injected. Did your post injection pain right at the meniscus take longer to go away?
BTW, I'm praying you recover completely from your horrible spine injury.
Doug
I recall that the areas where the meniscus and the ACL were directly injected took longer to heal and for the pain to completely subside there. Hang in there, follow the doc's recommendations and give your body time to heal.
DeleteThank you, the spinal cord injury was very traumatic, but I am lucky that my body is still healing and I'm regaining abilities very slowly.
Bruce, a search on alternative tx for shoulder replacement finds me here. Happily. Glad the stem cell protocol worked so well for you. Go alternative medicine! Equally happy you provided/shared so many details about you experience during and post tx.
ReplyDeleteUnfortunately it looks like my ball joint isn't a candidate. At 63 cartilage simply began dropping off after Decades of swimming and has not stopped. Going under the knife is the last thing I want especially since I'm told by surgeon that a shoulder replacement will only partly enable me to swim again. What I get from all my research extrapolates out to your experience: stem cells are reparative vs restorative. I think�� Continued health Bruce. Thanks again.
I'm glad that this information was helpful to you. I'm sorry that your shoulder is not not a candidate for stem cell treatment. Best of luck!
DeleteHi Bruce,
ReplyDeleteI'm so sorry to hear about your spinal cord injury. I will pray for you! Do you think there is a difference in Regenerexx Dr's? I can go to KC or Des Moines. I have arthritis/ pain in the knee and hear lots of clicking. Legs also ache from arthritis. I'm worried about being off anti inflammatories and not being able to exercise. I've lost 20 pounds and need to lose 30 more! I've been cycling and swimming but it all hurts!
Thank you for the kind words. This is a good question. When I search for a doctor, I look for reviews of doctors online as there are many sites that rate doctors now.
DeleteI have a friend who had painful arthritis and experienced dramatic relief by giving up both gluten and dairy. In fact, he has given up all the drugs he used to take for inflammation and pain relief. He tells everyone about his experience because anyone can try this and it cannot hurt your body.
I'm considering this procedure for my shoulder. Would anyone who has had this procedure be willing to chat?
ReplyDeleteI am the author of this blog and I have had the treatment on both my knees, my wife has had her shoulder treated, I have three neighbors who have had knees and feet treated. I am always willing to chat, hence my blog ;-).
DeleteStem cell 3days ago / knee & hip - hip & iliac feel ok - knee very cranky (have torn lateral meniscus) - want to put brace on - pro grade one I used prior to seeking intervention- crutches raggjng in other knee/ hard to have faith in the process - how many days till u felt moderately ok ?
ReplyDeleteMy left knee (no injuries, just wear and tear) actually has much more pain than my right (three major injuries over 30 years) and it took about 5-6 days before the initial pain from the injection of the platelets calmed down. After that, you MUST follow the physician's instructions and plan for rehab and recovery.
DeleteHey Bruce,
ReplyDeleteI am a 22 year old male which had acl surgery in 2012 due to a football injury in 2010. A few years after my acl surgery, I began feeling very loose in my surgical knee with hyperextension and rotational instability. Got an MRI and it showed no tear in my repaired acl and no impingement of roof or sidewall. However on clinical exam, my knee is really loose when checking for acl in lachmans test. My regenexx doctor in Utah recommended stem cell therapy which includes prolotherapy and two prp injections to tighten up the ligaments. He also recommend injecting my menisci and other structures around my knee even though there wasn't any noted damages on MRI. In your opinion is it safe to have this therapy even on tissue that's not damaged? My biggest issue now is this nagging instability in my knee due to the looseness and it just feels very weak like a can't put pressure on it without having it feel like it would just give way. Also my lateral hamstrings are also hurting as well. So I might ask for treatment or prp there as well. Lastly, I would love to talk to you more about your experience, do you have an email I could contact you on? Thank you!! Your post is really inspiring!
-Jason
Hi Jason,
DeleteI never experienced looseness in my knee that has had surgery, so I can't say for sure. But my knee that never had an injury or surgery responded very well to the prolotherapy + PRP, it tightened it right up. I am guessing that the reason that your hamstring is sore is due to the compensation for the instability. The hamstrings play an instrumental role in knee stability, so perhaps they are being overworked, or there may be some smaller muscles that are a bit weak (as smaller muscles provide endurance), or it could be both.
I always advise people to be evaluated for the procedure by a Regenexx certified doctor and it sounds like you have already taken this step. I am happy to speak with you as I have with many other people. Please contact me via email so we can make arrangements for this - bruce DOT snyder AT gmail DOT com.
1) i have contacted u before also regarding grade 3 tear in posterior horn of medial meniscus in rt knee 2) is it curable using your stem cell treatment 3) because i was told that medial meniscus grade 3 tear in posterior horn is not curable with stem cell
ReplyDeleteThis is a question for a Regenexx certified physician will need to answer. I highly recommend you schedule an appointment with a Regenexx certified physician to be evaluated and s/he will be able to provide you an assessment based on their patented methods. I recommend this to everyone because those physicians can evaluate you based on their specific technologies. The best they can tell you is that you can avoid a surgical procedure like I did, the worst they can tell you is that it won't help such an injury.
Deletei thought it is the condition i have to live with
ReplyDeleteas i wanted to avoid surgery at any cost
ReplyDeleteHi Bruce. How are things going with your knees???? I torn my ACL and looking forward to seeing regenexx as treatment. Would you still recommend it?
ReplyDeleteAs long as there is not a complete separation of the ACL as Regenexx can only repair a partial separation. In fact, I recommend it even more highly than I did previously because of the successful outcomes that I have seen from my recommendations to family, friends and colleagues. As always, my advice is to have your situation evaluated by a Regenexx certified physician and to determine which procedure will be best suited for your case.
Delete